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Bananamontana
Starting Member
21 Posts |
 Posted - 07/10/2002 : 06:47:19
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I haven't fished Loch Leven for nearly four years and I would be more than interested to hear anybody's thoughts on how the "Old Lady" is doing these days, perhaps experiences over the last few seasons.
How are the brownies coming along ?
Is the flylife plentiful?
There's a new lodge isn't there?
Does Leven compete, on and off the water,with the likes of the Rutlands of the world, who have been, and still are setting the standards of modern fly-fishing on large stillwaters.
I would welcome any opinions/issues
A.L.
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janpanfisherman
Starting Member
4 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2002 : 12:07:24
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A couple of hours in the bar of the local hotel or inn can often provide a higher level of education,than a weeks hard fishing.
Enjoy your dram.
janpanfisherman
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Bananamontana
Starting Member
21 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2002 : 04:12:46
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Janpanfisherman,
You're absolutely right, and I have done so. My intention is to instigate a debate about Loch Leven on a wider scale and contribute to the forum - as perhaps you also are.
Sorry for not having the specific info for you on Loch Ba. I hope someone can further help you on that one.
regards,
A.L.
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Sandison
Member
117 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2002 : 14:31:33
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Loch Leven was once the most famous trout loch in the world. Loch Leven fish were used to stock rivers and lochs in South America, South Africa, The Falklands, New Zealand, Australia,Tasmania and India, and other locations. The loch has more environmental/conservation protection designations attached to its name than other water in Europe. But even they were not enough to save it from becoming, a few years ago, because of toxic algal blooms, a danger to public health. Indifference, mismanagement and sheer greed has turned Loch Leven into what it is today, just another put-and-take stew-pond. Professor Chris Todd of St Andrews University said at the time when notices were posted round the loch advising people not to touch the water, "I wouldn't feed Loch Leven trout to my cat."
Bruce Sandison |
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stevie-mac
Starting Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 23/10/2002 : 11:41:55
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Although Loch Leven is certainly a shadow of its old self, the quality of the fish in there cannot be disputed. I agree to some extent with Mr. Sandison that the agricultural run-off has certainly affected the quality of the water and I find the loch too weedy and shallow towards the east end of the loch. However, the brown trout are beautiful specimens (I caught one at 7lb this year) and the rainbow trout, once allowed to grow on are hard-fighting, absolutely solid creatures that bear little resemblance to a typical "put and take" rainbow. Although Leven is now somewhat classed as a "put and take" fishery, I for one am glad that such places exist - it keeps the pressure off the wild hill loch fishing that I love most and can enjoy without being buzzed by boats and self-proclaimed professional/competeion anglers. What is your take on this Mr. Sandison?
Steven McInally |
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stevie-mac
Starting Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 23/10/2002 : 11:42:13
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Although Loch Leven is certainly a shadow of its old self, the quality of the fish in there cannot be disputed. I agree to some extent with Mr. Sandison that the agricultural run-off has certainly affected the quality of the water and I find the loch too weedy and shallow towards the east end of the loch. However, the brown trout are beautiful specimens (I caught one at 7lb this year) and the rainbow trout, once allowed to grow on are hard-fighting, absolutely solid creatures that bear little resemblance to a typical "put and take" rainbow. Although Leven is now somewhat classed as a "put and take" fishery, I for one am glad that such places exist - it keeps the pressure off the wild hill loch fishing that I love most and can enjoy without being buzzed by boats and self-proclaimed professional/competition anglers. What is your take on this Mr. Sandison?
Steven McInally |
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Sandison
Member
117 Posts |
Posted - 24/10/2002 : 12:30:30
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Steven
I agree with you, Loch Leven brown trout are exceptionally beautiful, particularly one of 7lb in weight! But that does nothing to quell my anger over the introduction of rainbow trout to Loch Leven, approved by Scottish Natural Heritage as 'temporary measure'. Personally, I don't want these fish anywhere in Scotland, let alone in Loch Leven. They are an invasive, non-native species. However, we enjoy our angling in different ways and live in a 'broad church'. If some people want to fish for rainbow trout then that is their affair and I respect their right to do so. For my part, however, an 8oz wild trout from a hill loch is worth more than a million farm-reared fish. Best wishes from the far north!
Bruce Sandison |
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Sandison
Member
117 Posts |
Posted - 24/10/2002 : 12:30:38
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Steven
I agree with you, Loch Leven brown trout are exceptionally beautiful, particularly one of 7lb in weight! But that does nothing to quell my anger over the introduction of rainbow trout to Loch Leven, approved by Scottish Natural Heritage as 'temporary measure'. Personally, I don't want these fish anywhere in Scotland, let alone in Loch Leven. They are an invasive, non-native species. However, we enjoy our angling in different ways and live in a 'broad church'. If some people want to fish for rainbow trout then that is their affair and I respect their right to do so. For my part, however, an 8oz wild trout from a hill loch is worth more than a million farm-reared fish. Best wishes from the far north!
Bruce Sandison |
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ali gow
Junior Member
64 Posts |
Posted - 24/10/2002 : 20:43:47
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Hi, I would just like to say that while my first love is and always will be to fish for wild browns in their natural environment - I fully agree with Steves assessment that rainbows have a very definite place in both the management and survival of wild fisheries. Anything that relieves the fishing pressure on wild fish can only be a good thing for their long term future survival.While I agree with Mr Sandison that he is a lucky man regarding the quality of wild fishing he has available to himself in the Nordth of Scotland, his views on "put and take fdisheries" are extremely naive and he is viewing the situation through "rose tinted spectacles". Without the relief of rainbow fisheries, his beloved wild fisheries would soon be overrun with visiting anglers and he would be fighting a more serious battle to save his native browns, than his present "SUPERB AND SINGLEMINDED" campaign for the survival of seatr out - WHICH I SUPPORT WHOLEHEARTEDLY
" I'd rather be fishing"d
Ali Gow
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Sandison
Member
117 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2002 : 14:04:44
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Hi, Ali!
Are you by any chance related to the Ali who still owes me details of a sixth superb salmon and sea-trout fishing location in North West Sutherland?
Best wishes from the far north..
Bruce Sandison |
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Bananamontana
Starting Member
21 Posts |
Posted - 28/10/2002 : 10:23:36
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Bruce/Stevie/Ali:
Thanks,
I have tried to get in touch with Scottish National Heritage via their website, since the topic opened, but so far - no reply.
I would like to know just when these temporary "immigrants" will cease to be stocked in Scotlands most famous trout loch.
I too, think that the loch is a shadow of her former self and should be put to rights for the future of Scottish angling, & Scottish tradition.
Legitimate resistance may of course be expected from anglers who have enjoyed fishing for Rainbows in L/Leven, and who can blame them?
(Questionably legitimate however are the riparian owners and management who are hauling at the udders of another "cash-cow" called Loch Leven.)
The overwintered fish of Leven are without doubt fine examples. Surely though it's our duty to ensure that we maintain and preserve Scotland's character, history and FUTURE.
Let's make sure that when our children fish Loch Leven, they receive it in the condition that was given to us.
It's not that I don't like stocked rainbow fisheries, far from it. - But surely there are enough around to cater for all tastes without putting a question mark on our most prestigous water.
(Seen any Red Squirrels lately?)
Ah'll get off ma box noo
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rabbitangler
Member
118 Posts |
Posted - 28/10/2002 : 15:49:26
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I just love all the folks who go on and on and on about Leven and the 'good old days' when anglers caught loads and loads of beautiful brownies. I've got to admit I've only fished leven on rare occasions but over nearly 30 years and been listening to stories of how good it was etc. just as long. Quite frankly it seems the place is resting on laurels from the early part of the 20th century as far as I can see.
It's decline has little to do with rainbows but with the vast amount of s***e that was pumped in over the last century or more, combined, if I remember rightly with leven's ridiculously slow turnover of water.
As far as I have heard, read and experienced the place was never as good as they say it was, in living memory.
If you want a good Brown trout water try lintrathen, at least you've a chance of a fish there.
Peter
p.s. You might even see a red squirrel at Lintrathen
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Bananamontana
Starting Member
21 Posts |
Posted - 29/10/2002 : 07:32:47
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Anglers accounts can often be inflated and I would imagine Loch Leven was no different during it's heyday, but there can be no doubting that the stature of Loch leven wasn't built on myth.
Yes, the excessive input of phosphates leading to toxic algae and an ECO imbalance has affected (to an untold degree) the insect and fish populations:- But I think it's wrong to accept this and resort to fishing for reservoir browns elsewhwere.
Thankyou for advising Lintrathen, although I haven't fished it, I am sure it's a fine water. Our own local water is also stocked only with browns, and in central Scotland this is a rarity.
Do I want a good brown trout water?
Yes, and I want one that the rest of the world can enjoy as part of Scotland's heritage.
Loch Leven!
A.L.
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Bananamontana
Starting Member
21 Posts |
 Posted - 06/01/2003 : 06:58:26
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I have been doing further research into the Loch Leven issues with varying success.
Namely through Scottish National Heritage and the Game Conservancy Trust.
It is becoming obvious to me that this is not an insensitive matter which involves Ecological/Agricultural policies, politics and no small amount of consideration in its handling.
Some of the governmental grants for current agricultural/commercial activities will run for 30 plus years. Not knowing when they started , I may be chucking my flies in the big water in the sky by that time.
Does the general public and anglers realise that Loch Leven's condition certainly wont return to normality in their lifetime ?
Current evidence shows exactly how right Bruce Sandison was at the time regarding the SNH decision to allow the introduction of alien trout into the under-managed/funded Loch Leven,thus allowing other commercial Brown trout waters to follow suit. eg:Gartmorn Dam
I cannot believe that the SNH have condoned the sacrifice of one Scotland's finest waters and an indigeneous genetic sub-species of trout, to threat of a compensation claim for potential revenue loss :- and the other environmental agencies and the government turn a blind eye.
UNBELIEVABLE !!
Having read the extremely glossy "Loch Leven catchment area management plan", which I generally applaud, surely the intended actions should have been implemented decades earlier. I get the feeling that all they are doing is monitoring its decline to the death -(mirroring the Scottish wild salmon predicament). What a waste of resources and funding that would be.
Can we hope that someday the Government will get the message and invest "realistic" funding into Scotland and indeed Britain's ecological welfare (or is it warfare). Yes, this may mean paying compensations to halt or indeed stem the amount of excessive phosphates released into our water catchments - but what price are we going to pay later if we don't ?
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rabbitangler
Member
118 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2003 : 14:03:49
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Whilst dissagreeing wholheartedly with stocking rainbows into leven, if memory serves the alternative at the time was the introduction of a more insidious form of alien which anglers find more distastful than rainbows, windsurfers, sailors, jetskiers etc.
Hopefully I haven't given too much offence to our fellow water users but which would you prefer????
Peter
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Bananamontana
Starting Member
21 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2003 : 07:10:29
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Peter,
I know where you are coming from and this raises a couple of issues.
(Please, bear in mind that I'm no expert and these are only my humble opinions).
I only find rainbows distasteful when introduced to the natural habitats of the Brown Trout.During any given season I probably fish 50/50 Rainbow/Brown as the majority of fisheries in Central Scotland stock rainbows. It must be said that on the few Top-of-the-water venues, sport can be, second to none. I also think that it's safe to say that the quality of rainbow stocks have dramatically improved since the days of the finless/tailess lumps of suet which dominated the 70's & 80's. This change, (and this is my point) was largely brought about by anglers voting with their feet. - "We" have the power to change!! (Ask Bruce - One man can make a difference.)
Watersports on L/Leven may have been an option at the time of dispute (I can't really comment on that - I don't know.) But would this not have been a preferable "Temporary" option to the possibility of the introduction of rainbows disrupting and or changing the Loch Leven Brown Trout Genotype? Rainbows are regularly caught in the River Leven which supports a good head of Brown Trout and a small head of Salmon and Sea Trout. What chance now for their young and ova?, and should they survive, fiercer competition for their food.
Don't you think it would be rather selfish of us to demand sport for rainbows, just to keep other watersports off the water whilst doing our own untold damage to the aquaculture of Loch Leven?
Loch Leven has a massive pollution problem giving enough problems to its indigenous fish without the added pressure of the introduction of another species.
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Loch Leven
