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Peter Kealey
Junior Member
66 Posts |
 Posted - 23/01/2009 : 11:14:49
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I will be the first to admit that the article compiled by Magnus on the Round 4 fly is one of the most comprehensive articles I have read on techniques surrounding a competition fly. All the bases have been covered and covered well. It doesn't leave much room to expand on but here goes.
Material selection and preparation will be vital to the overall look of the finished fly. My preference would be to use Teal for the wings, they are fairly robust but easy to work with and will take a fair bit of abuse before splitting. If you want some torture my advice would be to use Starling.
Pluck the 9 or so primary feathers from each wing, wash in Woolite, Rinse, Dry naturally and then steam them. Tape them to a piece of card and store flat until ready for use. Ideally the wings should be taken from the same bird.
The peacock quill should be clean and well banded nearly like a zebra crossing when wound. It will help if the prepared quill is soaked in hair conditioner for about an hour before hand it will make it more pliable and less likely to split.
Hackles use the best you have. 
That is the material side of things prepared.
There is not a lot to cover in the way of tying tips that have not been covered already by Magnus. If I were to tie this fly it would be the dry version and I would make up the wings in hand first of all. I will try and explain this and hopefully post pictures on this later.
Select matching slips of Teal primary feather place them back to back (tips curving out) make about 10 pairs and set them aside. Wax about 12" of 6/0 thread and make a loop in the middle with a double overhand knot keep the loop open to a 2" diameter. Place a matched pair of Teal slips in between the thumb and forefinger of your left hand and hold them firmly in place. Slide the loop over the butt ends to a point on the feather that equals one and a half times the gape of the hook. Close the loop slightly by pulling gently. Put one end of the thread between your teeth and the other in your right hand and pull gently. This technique will collapse the feather fibres and you will be left with perfect dry fly wings every time. Split and set them with a dubbing needle and put a small drop of flexament, floo glue or varnish at the base of the wing. I promise they will not split. Putting them on the hook is fairly straightforward as well. It's like putting a saddle on a horse.
Tying on the quill body I would use the same technique for working with flat metal tinsel. Make a small angular cut of about 45 degrees and tie the quill in on the back side of the hook. The first turn of the quill will butt against the tail and the angle that you have cut will continue along the body. A slight taper in the body would be nice.
Hackle for the dry fly 4-5 turns behind the wings 4-5 in front depending on hackle quality.
I hope this is of some help.
Regards Pete
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paul clydesdale
Junior Member
57 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2009 : 13:09:30
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Pete
i have thourghly enjoyed reading your step by steps each month and have learned various new things.have missed entering the comp this year and fingers crossed will have a bash again next year |
Edited by - paul clydesdale on 23/01/2009 15:07:25 |
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Jackwow
Starting Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2009 : 14:47:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter Kealey
...., wash in Woolite, Rinse, Dry naturally and then steam them. Tape them to a piece of card and store flat until ready for use....It will help if the prepared quill is soaked in hair conditioner for about an hour before hand....
Hi Peter,
I have entered the comp this year after an absence from fly tying of over 20 years so I don't expect to be very successfull. I realise it's competition tying but the methods you describe above are to me extreme and alien to the fly tying that I once knew.
I don't believe anyone would follow these directions to tie flies for fishing and therefore I don't believe they are necessary to tie flies that are good enough for competion.
Just my thoughts.
Regards.
Neil. |
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paul clydesdale
Junior Member
57 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2009 : 15:18:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Jackwow
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Kealey
...., wash in Woolite, Rinse, Dry naturally and then steam them. Tape them to a piece of card and store flat until ready for use....It will help if the prepared quill is soaked in hair conditioner for about an hour before hand....
Hi Peter,
I have entered the comp this year after an absence from fly tying of over 20 years so I don't expect to be very successfull. I realise it's competition tying but the methods you describe above are to me extreme and alien to the fly tying that I once knew.
I don't believe anyone would follow these directions to tie flies for fishing and therefore I don't believe they are necessary to tie flies that are good enough for competion.
Just my thoughts.
Regards.
Neil.
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Edited by - paul clydesdale on 24/01/2009 02:37:17 |
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paul clydesdale
Junior Member
57 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2009 : 15:21:14
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| interesting coment from someone who hasent tied for over two decades |
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Jackwow
Starting Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2009 : 17:03:14
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| And a totally uninteresting comment from someone who can't spell. |
Edited by - Jackwow on 23/01/2009 17:07:30 |
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Magnus
Administrator
529 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2009 : 17:44:29
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Hi Neil
Nice to hear from someone with opinions.
quote:
I don't believe anyone would follow these directions to tie flies for fishing and therefore I don't believe they are necessary to tie flies that are good enough for competion.
Apart from the spelling mistake (competition) I don't really get your assumption that if flies are good enough for fishing they are good enough for a fly tying competition.
I may even resent the implication that if its good enough for a fish its good enough for the judge of the competition
I think I'm a bit more demanding that most fish - but of course I could be wrong.
Pete has explained how he prepares materials and offered a rather good method of preparing paired wings - is there a problem?
Magnus |
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ruby pennel
Starting Member
23 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2009 : 04:48:41
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Due to the fact that I will probably be away from home for most of February and March I have had to tie my flies and get them in early.
Sent the round 4 flies yesterday. If I had seen Pete's suggestions earlier I may have had less trouble with those damned split wins.
Pete thanks for your efforts which I appreciate, every competitor has the choice to either follow or ignore them. I don't see any reason for criticism [other than the right of free speech.] |
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Jackwow
Starting Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2009 : 07:29:39
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Hi Magnus,
I suppose the point I was trying to make, although obviously not very well, was that if you try to always tie your fishing flies to a high standard then you should be able to use the same methods for competition albiet with a bit more care.
Washing feathers in Woolite (whatever that might be), steaming them and soaking them in conditioner are practises that I've never heard of and seem to me to be a bit over the top?
But maybe after 20 years away from it I'm just out of touch?
Regards,
Neil.
P.S. Did you receive my Round 1 and 2 entries which I couriered from Dubai in January? |
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Martini Fisher
Junior Member
90 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2009 : 08:58:44
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For what its worth Neil I see your point on well tied fishing flies. However the point that Pete is, in my opinion, making is that to tie good qaulity COMPETITION flies then you need to go a step further and prepare the materials more than you may do for your fishing flies. The trend to wash and clean materials prior to tying competition or display flies is newish but some people have been doing it for a fair while anyway but certainly not 20 years. The difference in the finished article is definately one that can be seen. And the old trout Magnus has eyes like a sh---hawk . Then its down to your tying technique for the finished article.
Peters detailed explanation of how HE does it is much appreciated by almost everyone I think. Especially as the gent is not tying in the competition this year, its not something he has to do, but with information like this over and above the detailed instructions from the Old Trout it will probably increase the entrants to the comp.
A good deal all round I think.
Good luck with your flies in the competiton Neil.
Regards
Keith
Just going down the shed dear. Wont be a mo...... |
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Peter Kealey
Junior Member
66 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2009 : 10:40:22
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Thanks for the comments both the positives and the negatives. In response to Neil's comments and please don't take them as personal, my intention is to respond to the points you have made.
quote:
I don't believe anyone would follow these directions to tie flies for fishing and therefore I don't believe they are necessary to tie flies that are good enough for competion.
That's your choice but many of the better flydressers in this competition will follow some system of material preparation. If I am wrong take me out and shoot me.
quote:
Washing feathers in Woolite (whatever that might be), steaming them and soaking them in conditioner are practises that I've never heard of and seem to me to be a bit over the top?
Woolite is a liquid washing solution for woolen clothing available in most supermarkets A drop of ordinary Fairy Liquid will also suffice.
But maybe after 20 years away from it I'm just out of touch?
I may sound like some-one who has recently been diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and should be immediately sectioned to the local Asylum to prevent my daughters from catching this highly contagious feather washing disease. What I would say to you Neil is to try and prepare some materials in the manner I have described, you will notice a huge difference on how they behave when putting them on the hook. People have been doing this for years it's nothing new. Take for example Golden Pheasant Crest Feathers, taken straight from the bird they are not straight and never have the correct curvature required be it for tails or toppings, with a little preparation (washing and shaping on a glass) you have perfectly curved feathers that will remain straight and true. Maybe after 20 years away you are slightly out of touch but the basic principles and patterns and even the Trout we endeavour to catch remain the same. I do remember dressing Ginger Quills over 20 years ago to a poor standard and catching fish with them
Competition fly-tying is there as a challenge and you must see it like that. It's a forum to showcase skill, abilities, material selection and preparation. Yes we can all wrap fritz on a hook and put a gold head on it and it will catch fish but it's hardly fly-tying.
Regards Pete
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Magnus
Administrator
529 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2009 : 21:37:04
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Hi Neil
Yes I have received your flies safely, your name will appear on the round 2 list of results. (As you know because your first round flies missed the round deadline they count towards the cumulative total but you don't appear on the results for that round.)
I don't want to labour this but cleaning materials is not a big chore and it makes a difference. Pete comes from a background of tying classic flies. You want to see real commitment and attention to detail? Watch those guys prepare their materials.
I tied fishing flies commercially for some time and selecting and sometimes cleaning and dying materials was part of the deal. Washing feathers and quite a few natural hairs made a big difference - anything from getting rid of fine grit which quickly dulls scissors to changing a dull lifeless hackle or hair into something with rich colours or more gloss on sharp hackles or hair that stacks well or... the list is not short and it all made for easier, faster tying and in my opinion better tied and better looking flies
One of the nastier examples, washing natural hares masks. As a rule they're air dried and have been steam treated for bugs. Man they can stink when you dry them but the amount of dirt that can come out is enough to convince me its worth the time and effort - say five minutes washing then set them out to dry.
Same with the last starling skin and natural partridge skins I bought - both looked fine but looked a whole lot finer when washed and dried. Same with genetic capes - take a good genetic dry-fly cape, wash it thoroughly, even scrape the skin with a spoon to extract some of the fat, and not only do the hackles look brighter and glossier they tie better (Capes take a little longer and I like to finish them with a hair drier before laying them out to dry the skin.)
With respect you may not have heard of doing that with feather and furs 20 years ago but even back then there were plenty of us quietly obsessing in private
Magnus |
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Magnus
Administrator
529 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2009 : 21:46:41
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quote:
And the old trout Magnus has eyes like a sh---hawk .
Hmmm....now if I was a vindictive and spiteful old trout/sh...hawk we might see someone slide down the table over the next few rounds...Keith
Magnus |
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huba1973
Junior Member
73 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2009 : 15:17:57
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I could not resist not to post the photo of this fly up here,even though I will go for wet version for round IV.
Good luck to everyone,is not an easy task.
Hubert
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Martini Fisher
Junior Member
90 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2009 : 17:52:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Magnus
quote:
And the old trout Magnus has eyes like a sh---hawk .
Hmmm....now if I was a vindictive and spiteful old trout/sh...hawk we might see someone slide down the table over the next few rounds...Keith
Magnus
Magnus my very nice dear chap,
You have (I hope) my round two flies. As you can see I dont need any
help to slide down the list sir!!
I dont recall saying you were a hawk of any kind but that you had eyes similar to a particular species ( I beleive its a Black Kite) as christened by the military. They can spot "stuff" from a long way out.
Keep up your wonderful work both in the competition marking and the forum.
I remain sir your humble servant
KP
Just going down the shed dear. Wont be a mo...... |
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Magnus
Administrator
529 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2009 : 20:11:04
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Quite humble enough 
More seriously - I have completed the round 2 marking and did not have your flies - no I'm not joking.
Magnus |
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Topic |
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Round 4 Quill Body Hints and Tips
