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flyfishingandflytying
Forum Admin
165 Posts |
 Posted - 02/06/2001 : 09:35:02
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Are classic salmon flies simply works of art, or deadly fish deceivers?
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Flytier
Starting Member
21 Posts |
 Posted - 02/06/2001 : 11:10:52
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Too polarized a question ;-)
For me classic atlantic salmon flies are an elaborate, but esthetically pleasing result of sound application of basic tying techniques.
As fish catching tools I believe they fall short of the efficiency of more modern dressings, mostly hairwing flies, which move better and are far more durable.
Cheers,
Hans W
===== You have a friend in Low Places ===
http://www.danica.com/flytier |
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damsel nymph
Junior Member
53 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2001 : 06:10:46
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No doubt they are works of art, but given the bulk and costs of materials they aren't the most practical of lures. The modern alternatives offer far more flexibiliy.
Tyhe traditional salmon fly still presents the fly tyer with the ultimate test of his/her skills.
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jeffjones
Starting Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2001 : 12:25:26
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I agree with Damsel, as singles are being used more and more I think the classics adapt better to the siongle than, say, a hairwing. Given proper and cheaper substitutes, which of the classic flies would make the besty fishing singles?
jeffjones |
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jeffjones
Starting Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2001 : 12:25:43
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I agree with Damsel, as singles are being used more and more I think the classics adapt better to the siongle than, say, a hairwing. Given proper and cheaper substitutes, which of the classic flies would make the best fishing singles?
jeffjones |
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Magnus
Administrator
529 Posts |
Posted - 16/06/2001 : 22:30:52
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Hi guys. I tend to agree with Hans, the question is poor. Trying to create a controversy for the sake of it. Sorry Mark.
However, I'd take issue with a coupla things said in this string - that modern patterns are more efficient - hum - well the fly in the water is the most efficient! Classics are fished so rarely in the UK how could they compete with the top moderns - about half a dozen in all.
However again - simplified classics are still widely fished - in Canada, US, Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland etc etc.
And also - read that hairwings don't convert to singles too well - eh! Such as????
Magnus
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cannon
Starting Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 20/06/2001 : 15:43:58
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Id' like to know how many people can cast a classic fly efficiently not to mention bear the cost of lost or snagged flies. The mastery of fly tying technique involved in these flies should deserve the title masterpiece and certainly these flies are valid pieces of Art or should that be art
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threesalmon
Starting Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 20/06/2001 : 19:26:24
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Yes ,classic salmon flies are deadly.
From reading some of the posts below it remains clear that many people are timid to dress flies in the old way. They can easily and reasonably be made with the many subs available.
I've dressed them for almost 20 years both for display and fishing.
Build a wing with the primary colours and simply place some golden pheasant tail in for the top section,nothing fancy is needed.
By the way ,its me first time on this site and have to say I like it much.
Jerome Francis Molloy
http://www.atlanticsalmonfly.com
Edited by - threesalmon on 20/06/2001 19:42:47 |
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bob monkfish
Starting Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 21/06/2001 : 04:11:15
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Yes, that's all well and good but what's the point of tying a fully dressed salmon fly if its not the genuine article. Using subs or indeed, creating a truncated version of the traditional dressing; isn't this the same reason hairwing flies were developed?
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threesalmon
Starting Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 21/06/2001 : 17:20:55
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Hi Bob,I don't think hairwings and featherwings are the same type of fly although I use both. Even reduced and think for a moment about the low water flies of days gone by,there remains a certain fullness
in the shoulders of a feathered fly that allows if correctly dressed,the fly to swim.
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bob monkfish
Starting Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 22/06/2001 : 10:55:47
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I didn't say they were the same. The hairwing is easy and cost effective to tie and can be fished effectively using modern lightweight tackle. The fully dressed fly, unless tied on a heavy old style hook, will fish upside down (whether that makes a difference is another argument) and requires a heavyweight outfit just to cast, fish and set the hook. Not the most sporting way to fish for salmon, especially on the small/medium sized rivers.
As to the fish catching properties of the two; modern materials have more movement and translucence, I know which I'd go for if I were a fish.
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Magnus
Administrator
529 Posts |
Posted - 27/06/2001 : 18:26:10
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Reply to some of Bob Monkfish's comments.
1 - I doubt that master tyers of the past would've turned up their noses at moderns subs - good ones.
2 - Many of the subs so called were in fact used when the classic texts were being written. (e.g.Dyed Guinnea for Jay - Seals Fur or Mohair for Pigs Wools - Kingfisher for Chatterer.
3 - What you describe as "Truncated" versions of classics were probably widely used before they classics were collected and formalised - remember the pattern for a given Classic differs slightly depending on the writer. So - genuine means what? Also bear in mind that many of the Classics were tied as exhibition flies - and quite intentionally used exotic materials - making it more difficult for other tiers to copy.
4 - I see no reason why feather winged flies should fish upside down if the dressing is in suitable proportion to the hook. Any fly including hairwings can be overdressed and will swim badly!
5 - I suggest you have a look at the outfit Wood used fishing feather winged flies on a greased line on Cairnton, his beat on the Dee. A 12ft single handed rod. Feather winged flies need not be big and the hooks need not be heavy!! And that bit of the Dee is easily big enough to justify a longer rod. Also - in terms of weight and wind resistance the nearest we have in our current fishing vocabulary to those old flies might be Pike flies of some of the Salt Water patterns - and what do we use - single handed rods between 9 and 10ft.
6 - As for the weight of flies - a three inch brass tube is a damned sight heavier that any of the old hooks I've handled.
7 - A modern stiff 15ft Salmon rod would make a damned sight better job of setting one of the old irons than a Greenheart or Split Cane rod of the 19th or early 20th century.
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R.McIntyre
New Member
43 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2001 : 05:35:35
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Personally, I'd like to see a change towards more classic styles of salmon fly. I think that the trend towards single hooks these days is an ideal opportunity for fly tyers to re-discover the classic fly - hairwings were ideally suited to trebles and doubles, but singles suit the classic style best. Of course, we don't need to use the exact, original materials for fishing use: I'm sure adqeuate substitutes can be found. I also think it interesting that apparently the gillies of old used to take a [pin to the married feathers of a classic fly and rip it through the wing to separate the fibres thereby making it a foibre-wing fly rather than a rigid feather wing. Having said all that - which of the old calssic patterns would make the most effective fishing flies today?
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R.McIntyre
New Member
43 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2001 : 05:37:14
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Tim Trexler
Starting Member
12 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2001 : 07:32:17
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Reply to Mr. McIntyre:
I would have to say the Green Highlander, Dusty Miller and Black Dose, all of which are still fished extensively in the Canadian Maritimes. Granted, most of these are done as hairwing conversions. I tend to tie them as hairwings for fishing, and classic dressings for display.
Cheers,
Tim |
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R.McIntyre
New Member
43 Posts |
Posted - 18/07/2001 : 04:33:55
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Interested to see you mention the Green Highlander. Famous pattern that it is, I find it seems to be very popular in Canada, but less so over here in Scotland. The dominant green colour is not used so much over here - more blacks, yelllows and oranges. Someone once told me this was due to the greener glacial tinge of Canadian waters. Could this be correct? Come to think of it, the Green Machine is a favourite over there, too.
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Topic |
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Classic Salmon Flies
