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jim sheehan
Starting Member
2 Posts |
 Posted - 01/11/2006 : 17:18:12
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hi magnus
hooks for first round of the new flytying league.can you tell me where i can get flat forged hooks as i cant seem to get them anywhere in ireland.is there another hook type i can use.
thank you.
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Magnus
Administrator
529 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 19:43:56
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Hi Jim
Although Mick prefers a flat forged hook that's not a requirement for the competition - we quite deliberately took that comment out of the competition fly. Any wet-fly hook that sort of shape will do just fine.
For information only
When we're talking about hooks - "forged" simply means the wire has been flattened slightly during manufacture to add strength - well rigidity actually.
Kamasan, Mustad, Tiemco, Partridge, Fulling Mill, Orvis and Daiichi all list forged hooks, many have only had the bend forged.
Btw - have you checked your normal hooks to see if they're forged?
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Edited by - Magnus on 01/11/2006 19:45:09 |
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paul123
Starting Member
3 Posts |
 Posted - 07/11/2006 : 04:07:53
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jim,
try the fulling mill 31550 all purpose medium hooks. these are a good all round wet fly hook,flat forged and the shank is a little bit longer which makes fitting everything on a little easier.
regards, paul. |
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McFly
Junior Member
51 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2006 : 05:28:25
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Just as a matter of interest what size hook was the step by step tied on?
Billy |
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Magnus
Administrator
529 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2006 : 06:44:49
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Hi Billy
Ain't got the foggiest. Why? |
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McFly
Junior Member
51 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2006 : 06:55:59
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Hi Magnus
Just having trouble squeezing it all in. I have already abandonded any hope of using medium lead, but am still struggling to get a slim propotionate profile.
I suppose using a long shank is out of the question
Early days yet.
Regards
Billy |
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Dave Sneath
Starting Member
18 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2006 : 09:34:14
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Hi McFly -
You're right, a standard hook is too short in the shank. I've used a Lureflash VP200 size 12 this gives a little more space. I've also found that 3mm of Kracka Wheat packet is too wide and I've made it thinner.I found this fly a right B!!!!R to attempt.
Here's looking at last place!
Take easy
Dave |
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McFly
Junior Member
51 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2006 : 04:01:31
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Dave
You think you have problems! We are a Cream Cracker family, and I am worried about the shade. I am currently experimenting with Toffee Crisp wrappers, but it doesn't look good 
Think I'll be pushing you for last place!
Regards
Billy |
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Dave Sneath
Starting Member
18 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2006 : 05:20:55
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Hi McFly -
It's tough here at the bottom ain't it!!! We prefer Butter Puffs but I invested in a packet of Kracka Wheat just for the competition, pity we've got to use the wrapper for the flies, it probably tastes better than the contents.
Do consider using the VP200 it is long enough for the fly if you're careful.
Good Luck
Dave  |
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Magnus
Administrator
529 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2006 : 07:18:58
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Guys
The recipe calls for a wet fly hook - by that Mick seems to mean a standard hook (ie round bend, down eye, standard shank) going by the tying sequence. As I recall the oddity of this pattern is tying a buzzer on a straight shank rather than a curved hook, the reason for that being hooking power.
If it were me - I'd choose a hook and adapt the lead and orange plastic to suit the hook.
Lead wire can be shaped before tying - flatten it by draging a piece over the metal handle of a tying tool - or lay it flat on a hard surface and roll it flatter. Alternatively use square lead or lead sheet.
The orange cheeks need to be in proportion to the thorax - cut it. Btw the Kraka Wheat bit comes from a time when orange Mylar was not available on spools - it is now. The difficulty of using spooled mylar is you can't adjust it to suit the rest of the fly - using sheet material you can.
I'm not a sniffer dog so whether it comes from Kraka Wheat, Toffee Crisp or Christmas wrapping foil is irrelevant to me.
And you're right its not an easy fly.
Magnus |
Edited by - Magnus on 14/11/2006 07:20:31 |
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McFly
Junior Member
51 Posts |
Posted - 15/11/2006 : 04:10:27
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Thanks for that Magnus.
Had another go last night, and flattening the lead makes a big difference.
Dave do you know if anybody does Lureflash hooks by mail order?
Had a Google yesterday, but couldn't find anything.
Regards
Billy |
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Magnus
Administrator
529 Posts |
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jim.lucas
Starting Member
23 Posts |
Posted - 15/11/2006 : 08:02:22
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After reading these postings the recipe seems to be open for change what with round lead can now be square or flat, Kraka Wheat wrapper can now be anything of similar colour as can the thread and antron can be used as a substitute for artic fox.
Albeit a VP200 hook cannot be used. Studying the illustration in the mag the hook is more like a VP200 than a short shank which is virtually impossible to tie this pattern on. I was going to use a VP200 myself!
I feel this is making the competition far too difficult for novices who enter just for fun and have no intention of winning the competition.
Maybe it would be easier to state the recipe and stick to it as keep moving the goalposts causes problems.
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Magnus
Administrator
529 Posts |
Posted - 16/11/2006 : 09:58:18
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Hi Jim
Fair comments and they deserve an explanation.
As I understand it the idea is tying the pattern. I don't think that changes if the tyer uses skill and technique, similarly substitute materials are simply part of tying.
Watch a top tyer take a married wing and attach it to the shank - let it sit for a few minutes or longer, then remove it and re-tie. He's doing that to modify the texture of the feathers - they become softer and air is forced out - giving a smaller more secure head.
As I see it that's a tying technique that comes from experience - it's not listed in the recipe. Simply flattening lead wire uses exactly the same knowledge of tying materials and techniques.
I explained that Kraka Wheat wrappers were chosen at a time when spooled orange mylar was not available - I also explained why it has advantages over spooled material.
Beginners enter and have difficulties - often as not they simply don't have the exact materials required by the recipe. Hopefully, using simple sane subs they can tie rather than spend their time collecting materials they may never use again. As they tie and learn what substitutes are appropriate they come to understand their materials the patterns - and their use in fishing and as buggy represntations.
More experienced tyers will, hopefully hone their skills, learn new techniques, gain insight into handling both familiar and unfamiliar materials.
I don't see that as creating difficulties or moving goal posts.
"Albeit a VP200 hook cannot be used."
Why can't a VP200 be used? It looks like a fine hook-choice to me.
I said the pattern calls for a wet fly hook and gave the basic description of a wet fly hook (round bend, down eye, standard shank)- the VP200 fits that exactly.
Compare that hook with, say, a B175 - sproat bend, 3x heavy wire. Because the B175 is a very popular hook, used extensively for wet flies, I'll certainly get loads tied on it. The will be no penalty for tying on a sproat hook.
Whatever hook - if the dressing is out of proportion to the hook that'll be part of the mark for proportion. If the tyer adapts the dressing to that hook it'll be marked accordingly.
That said if I get entries for the set flies tied on curved hooks or up-eyed dry hooks or salmon irons etc etc - that says to me that the tyer has not understood the pattern.
Similarly, if an entry comes with purple breathers rather than white it'll be marked down. It's a buzzer - traditionally they have white breathers. Purple breathers suggests to me a lack of understanding of the fly and the insect it kinda represents.
If the breathers are not fox but are white I'll certainly be looking to see if the material is appropriate - eg white wire or monofilament or foam or varnished this or that... not good!
Substituting white antron for fox gains no points but certainly loses none either.
Now, unless you want to argue that by changing fox to Antron and Kracka Wheat to orange Mylar the pattern has changed - I don't see the problem.
Magnus
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jim.lucas
Starting Member
23 Posts |
Posted - 20/11/2006 : 04:48:35
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Hi Magnus
Apologies if I have ruffled anyone's feathers as this were not my intention. I am new to fly-tying and do not understand what a materials substitute is. I do need a recipe to work from as I have not yet gained the knowledge to create certain patterns.
I hope this does not affect my results!
Jim
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McFly
Junior Member
51 Posts |
Posted - 20/11/2006 : 06:42:14
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Why would your comments affect your results Jim?
Think most of us mere mortals have struggled with this fly.
Billy
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Topic |
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hooks
